On today’s episode I am super excited to introduce you to an Amazing woman who manages to fit what seems to be an entire week's work into a single day. She is a professor, suicide prevention expert, Board Member at the NDIA, Chief strategist at TogetherAI, Committee Chair at Open Arms Veterans & Families Counselling, Chair at Swiss8, former Chair at Streat and helped setup Beyond Blue. Today’s guest is Professor Jane Burns a true role model for women all over and a proud mother of 3!  

Did you know that she was part of raising $41.3 million dollars during the lock-down, without meeting the investors face to face, what an achievement. She prides herself on authentic communication & engagement and hoe effective this can be with maintaining relationships during lockdown. She prides herself on running her week in a flexible manner, much prefers phone communication over email and loves working with early stage startup founders and teams. She is a big advocate for artificial intelligence and the developments some amazing women are making in this space.

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She proudly sits on the board of the NDIA and draws directly upon her experience with a child with disability. It's a big passion project for her, her 15 year old son Angus, her oldest child has been a huge beneficiary of the program. She has faced her own set of challenges with gender equality and being a working mother.

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Some fun facts about Jane:

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She is a part-time marathon runner.

She has a maiden name of Mudge, with the nickname of Mudgey!

She is a proud mother of 3.

She was flying to Sydney & Canberra at least 3 times per week, before lock-down.

She broke her shoulder running during lock-down, ouch!

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Hear from one of Jane's colleagues here:

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Lauren Moss - Minister for Seniors at Northern Territory Government

"It has been a pleasure to be involved with the Youth Brains Trust for the Young and Well Cooperative Research Centre and have the opportunity to see this inspiring woman in action! The passion that Jane has for improving the wellbeing of young people is constantly evident, she is a fabulous presenter and I am excited to see the achievement of projects that she is on the forefront of!"

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Listen as a podcast here

Check out the full transcript of this episode here:

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Welcome to She Knows, hosted by Brandon Burns, another show from TorchT Productions. This is the show where we tell the stories of amazing women doing amazing things. We share stories of adversity, success leading as a woman, overcoming challenges with gender stereotypes and role models for women all over the world.

Tune in to walk away with at least one key insight every episode that will help you on your journey. Let's get down to the show and if you like what you hear. Don't forget to subscribe and reviewers on all your favorite platforms and visit us at Get Torched.

Dot com. Welcome back, everyone, to the show, She Knows with your host Brandon. I'm excited for today's guest. I've got a professor, a suicide prevention expert and mental health advocate. She's a board member at The NDIA. She's chief strategy officer at Together AI.

She's the chair at suicide chair, which rates which is aiming to stop youth homelessness. She's a strategic advisor and clarity, workplace solutions. And she's a proud mother of three. She's also a part time marathon runner. I'd like to welcome to the show, Jane Burns.

How are you? I'm very well. Brandon, how are you? Pretty good. Hey, where'd you get that last name? It's a rip off. It's nothing wrong with the good old burns. That was your nickname in school, the same as mine was a burnsy.

No. Well, it's actually not my it's my married name. Oh, there we go. What was the maiden? Nudge, nudge, nudge, nudge Maji. They re done. Well, this is the bike already. But I first already Mudgee. You know, it might be says actually it was your obasi similar to me, my Mokdad in Melbourne, Victoria.

But one of the first questions I'll have to throw out my guess is what does a typical day in the life of Jane Burns look like? And all of a sudden, love to hear from you about, you know, maybe what it was or was going to be past down and what it's going to be cheering.

So my typical day, pre lockdown was I'd probably be flying to Sydney once or twice a week, maybe to Canberra at board meetings, doing strategy work with some of the startup companies that I'm supporting. It was pretty busy, lots of travel and then back home with family on the weekends, now with lockdown and what are we, up

to 250, 5000 million or something like that? It is literally up into the office. Start the day, get out and try and do some exercise, try to do something with the kids. And and that's about it. And a lot of zoon calls, which is it's been interesting.

You know, I've seen teams build where people have literally not met each other. And last year, I did a capital raise for this well and productive, say I Sabich of, you know, 41 and a half million dollars without having met people.

It was insane. Oh, hang on. Just give me that amount again. How much satirizing left out last year was forty one point three. This year is forty three point five million. Kashin. Cash in the bank, regulations not in the bank yet, not in the bank yet.

Tell me, Ryan, that's a really good point. So it's a massive amount and it kind of dispels the myth that investment needs to be an oddball discussion and face to face. You know, it can be better or easier for certain things, I'm guessing.

But what's been that one key insight or have you implemented that allowed you to actually successfully do it whilst being bound by virtual law? It's a great question. I think it was really authentic engagement. So and I'll use the example of the digital health organization, guys.

I hadn't met them. They came in as an instruction from one of the ministers. We got on a call and we started doing a weekly zone call, and we just started really talking about life and the challenges of life and what it all meant and what they were trying to achieve was a virtual reality goalball that measures

concussion. And it just seemed so cool and interesting. And we brought them into the states a bit last year and this year again. And then when I met them, you sort of you meet people and you expect them to be a certain way.

And we develop such a rapport online. And when I met them, they were exactly as I'd expected them to be, which is usually doesn't happen that way. And, you know, I still speak to Ben Parsons probably once once a week, and we check in on each other and we check in on, you know, I've got kids and

but we're both passionate about making a real difference in people's lives. So I think if you can authentically connect and have those conversations, I'd much rather do it face to face. But it can be done by, you know, on camera.

Well, so talk me through what you mentioned, that you catch up with some service stakeholders across your interest. You know, once a week. I'm sure there's others you do daily, some monthly, you carry a chair. And on the board of two or three different organizations, you got multiple ventures underway.

Talk me through what maybe not just a typical day, but a typical week might look like the how you spread your time and what those ventures are. Yeah. So I, I should have said I'm no longer the chair of Street.

So I did four years with straight and finished up in July of this year. Incredible organization, doing amazing work with very vulnerable young people and probably one of my favorite social enterprises. But my week would and I'm pretty flexible, which can work for some people, may not work so well for others.

So I like to pick up the phone and I like people to pick up the phone and to have a chat with me, particularly when something's when they want to check in on something. I'm not great on email.

So my typical week would be I'll have a chat with together I guys on a Monday morning and Wednesday. We do a stand up. Now it's a brand new start up just on the capital raise. The team's phenomenal.

And Josh, their leader, makes it a point that, you know, we actually need to work on connecting and staying connected. So that's kind of interesting. Oh, connect with others like suicide. And Adrian just randomly will pick up the phone and have a chat to each other and we'll send each other a text with a kin.

Lisel Yearsley. Her technology around artificial intelligence, I think is going to be just groundbreaking. I think it will be a real game changer for people who live with a disability. We have less formal, more informal. So text check ins catch up.

Now the great ones huddle Grimes. I'm employed of them. You might know rugby ex wallaby guy. You know, we'll just do a quick check check in phone calls. So it varies. Some of it's structured around workshops. You know, the clarity, clarity, guys who are whistleblowers will do sort of more of a formal structure.

And then obviously when you're trying to progress things, you actually do need to jump on calls together and work together. What you would normally do as a code is on workshop, you just simply can't do face to face.

So we've had a few interesting, interesting car on workshops that don't work as well on Zoom as they do face to face. Yeah. Now, one one I want to ask you about is you're on the board of the N'Diaye, which is at Shoosh.

And I want to ask you, how did that come about? And talk me through the passion in the in the wire and why you're doing that. Yeah, sure. So what's dear to my heart? So I have a 15 year old who lives with quite a severe disability.

So Angus is my eldest. He has Down syndrome, autism and is non verbal. So he got the triple whammy. I got him onto the NDIS when it first. Was open to participants here in Melbourne, and it has been.

Well, it's changed our lives because we immediately have that access and support and care, and we can choose who we want to use for use higher up in old smiles ability which are to newcomers to the market. The higher up guys, I just take my hat off to them.

They've done a phenomenal job. So being on the board, you know, you sort of talking about half a million people, all with very different needs. And it is probably one of the greatest infrastructures, in my view, that Australia has invested in.

And I think it should be bipartisan. It should be both, you know, apolitical, frankly, and what's been achieved in the seven years. And it's not perfect. And, you know, as a board member sitting on a board, you don't have control of day to day operations.

You don't have control of what's happening in each state and territory. That's the job of the executive. But they are trying to solve some of the biggest issues that no country anywhere in the world has ever solved. And that is how to ensure that you put the scaffolding and the support around our most vulnerable, those people who

live with disability. So when I was asked to join, you know, you do a lot of homework on these things. I've been chair and still I'm chair of Open Arms, which the Veterans Families Counseling Service and the previous minister had moved across to become a disability minister.

And I'd worked for a little while with him. And so he knew of the types of approaches that I took. And I'm a big fan of lived experience shaping services. And so I was appointed for that reason. So that said, it's all been during lockdown.

So it's really hard to be on a board that has such responsibility and so much complexity and really feel that you're actually doing it justice. And I think that's the biggest challenge with any board position. You don't want to be on a board if you there as a token and you don't want to be on a board

if you don't feel that you can have a voice. And you certainly don't want to be on a board where you're interfering with the executive and not allowing them to get on and do what they are exceptionally good at.

So know it's it's an interesting, challenging but incredible system if we get it right. And I think, you know, certainly the impact on Angus, the impact on frames that I know who use the NDIS has been profound. Fran, I'm impressed.

This is excellent. I don't know how you find the time because, you know, being a proud mother of three as well, and now describing your circumstances, you know, maybe this is an important question to ask you as as a woman and a mom and doing everything you're doing.

What's your support network look like and who do you turn to to really be able to perform at the high level? Again, I think I'm not perfect. So I don't get it right all the time or, you know, you get some things right and you get something so profoundly wrong that you sort of look at yourself in

the mirror and say, oh, wow, how did I not say that? But I went to an Australian Institute of company directors breakfast, and I don't remember who was speaking, but I remember them saying, whatever you do, buy in the services and supports that you can and you can't do it all alone.

That's the reality of it. So from a you know, I had three kids under five. We had a nanny, and I didn't feel bad about that. I didn't feel anything about that. I just felt that to do justice to my kids and to do justice to my career, I needed some support and help.

Now I've got a supportive partner who took a step back from his work so that I could continue doing what I was doing when we set up the young and well, CRC, I mean, that was I've never I've never been a CEO before.

I'd never you know, I had no clue as to what a co-operative research center was. And suddenly I ended up with this, you know, 40 million dollar investment to get 75 partners to work together around digital technologies. And this is back in two thousand nine ten.

So I've always been a big fan of ask for help. Lean on your family. My mum and dad are incredible. And, you know, I sort of lockdown's been tough because I haven't been able to see them as many, many, many families.

Some are in the same boat. Friends have been fantastic. You know, you just and I have the most incredible network of peers, both men and women, who I just pick up the phone and have a chat to. And, you know, sort of Dawn O'Neil in particular springs to mind.

She was the CEO of Lifeline and Beyond Blue. You know, we just pick up the phone and I said, OK, not Gina, what are you working on? And sure. So she's like a wise Obi Wan Kenobi and we'll talk it through.

And and Jenolan was the same, you know, when she was on the board of Rate Shot Men, she was a stay on foundation for young Australians that were meant to go to women. Helen Hammond, who's gone on to be the chair of the World Psychiatric Association, again, incredible sounding board.

And you just reach out to and continue to learn from those people that you you know, that that are your mentors and your peers. And I think increasingly now, as I get more experience and start to move into a different trajectory and career, I'm learning a massive amount from younger people who are coming through and sort of

looking at them and knowing that I'm supporting them, but also just learning a heap of stuff. Yeah, amazing. What I took from that mainly is asked to help, you know. And you also talk about your mum and dad.

The next question I had for you was to hear a little bit more about who your role models were growing up and also how that shaped the type of role model you are or you are so spiring to be.

Yeah, so I grew up in country South Australia in a city called Port Pirie. Claim to fame is it's the largest led smelter in the Southern Hemisphere. So it'd be fair to say I wasn't exposed to many global thought leaders, but mine, too.

Probably most profound influences in my life at that time were my nana and mum. And so Nana had mum when she was 17. Mum had Mesial when she was 21. So we were this close knit. You know, mum was an only child family.

And my nana was quite possibly one of the most kind, generous, thoughtful. She taught me everything about, you know, save the seals and guide dogs for the blind. And so I was this, you know, this young girl growing up port who was just passionate about social issues before social issues became social issues.

So it was you know, it was it was an interesting time, you know, as an industrial working class kid, really, in an industrial working class town, growing up and sort of trying to determine who am I and what do I want to do with life.

But they were the two most profound influences when I went to a Catholic school. So I'd have to say the nuns tend to influence on, you know, you know, you sort of look back and you think all of that, a very strict upbringing of Catholic and doom and gloom and but also a fair chunk of values in

there as well, you know, sort of about how you live a good life and giving back to society. So basically the the main influences in my early years. Love it. Love it. Awesome. How far away from the middle of, I guess, Adelaide's CBD?

Would that be OK? It's three hours north. OK. What's at the base of the Flinders Ranges? And as you drive, we drive through Port Wakefield, then Snowtown, then Redhill, then crystal broke. And you come up through an across the highway.

And the first thing you see is this massive stack, which is the LED smelter stack. And then you say the Flinders Ranges. And so you've got this the Flinders Ranges and then this led smelting town. Beautiful. Love it.

Hopefully get back sometime soon. I think it's crossed. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me, you've been the CEO. You've been the chair of the board. You've been the entry level graduate. You've worked for people. You've had people work for you.

Have you experienced along the journey any specific kind of gender challenges that have been both maybe a bit of a jarring experience, but also a really good learning and opportunity to impact change yourself? Look, I started in you know, I did a past in medicine, so my first role was at the Royal Children's Hospital here in a

Melbourne. And at the time, I don't think you realize how challenging and difficult it is as a female coming up through the ranks and all I remember. I just come out of during the day and we had an incredible leader in Bob Williamson who supported both men and women coming through.

And someone said to me, are you only you only get air time with Bob because you're tall and you've got blond hair. It's like put like it. Like I was really shocked. I was really like, wow. And then I was looked at and I thought, well, that's not true, because he catches up with Craig Olson as well

. It was another care and colleague. So it's sort of those jarring moments where you think, OK, that's a really interesting thing to have, you know, to to have said or to even to think. And then as you sort of go through and I've done a lot of work, obviously I've had chairs who have been politicians, and it's

just a different way of working. Certainly watching the conversations that have come out from Julie Bishop and Julia Gillard and politicians who've come through as female politicians, when you listen to that podcast, it is pretty profound. You sort of go, yeah, I've experienced all of those things.

All of those things of the female coming through. But at the time, you work out how you actually navigate through it, and now you see people calling it out more and more. But we were of a generation where we did not absolutely did not call it out because career limiting.

And I'm finding it really, really interesting to watch and to see how brave not just women are, but younger generation of men are and actually calling out poor behavior. And I think that's hard. It's tough. It's not that's not an easy thing to do.

And it's it is and can be career limiting. And I think that would be my reflection if there's anything that we can do as generations coming through, it's just for people to speak out and speak out openly and honestly about when they see it, when they say discrimination, when they say sexual harassment, when they say poor behavior

. And you see it in every walk of life. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're in the nonprofit sector or if you're in big industry or if you're in university land, you say poor behavior. And I think it's the challenge.

Yeah. So there's an element of calling in there and sort of pulling it up. What about the next step, which is, you know, it's harder, but trying to get some education happening or people that have maybe exhibited it to be rid of it?

Well, look, and it's why it's why I've done the cat race for this well and productive say I say the whole focus of that say I say it's on psychological safety in the workplace. It's why I've joined clarity, workplace solutions.

It's it's why I think that together I technologies are around having conversations and what those conversations look like. I just think if we don't start to do something about it, we are going to end up with a very, very unwell society.

And we're already seeing that in our psychological workplace and safety claims. You know, they're on the rise. It's all to do with relationships and the way people treat each other. And that might be due to the way the work structured.

It might be due to the pressures that people are under. You know, you sort of look at some of the workforces that are under extreme generous at the moment. So, you know, our defense, first responders, health care workers, you know, even people in the you know, the supermarket, you know, sort of customer, you know, that that anger

and their vitriol and just the challenges that they're facing. A tough. So I think as a society, we've got a real opportunity to reset the bar on how we look after each other, how kind we can be to each other, how, you know, people talk about gratitude, but actually how we acknowledge our gratitude and what it means

to actually. Live in this world and have the capacity to do amazing things in this world and to acknowledge that we don't always get it right. Yeah, you made a really good point there about how there is a real heightened sense of anger and unhappiness, which we can't really blame one person for, but we're all feeling.

And I wholeheartedly agree, because I've both witnessed it. And at times I'll put my hand up and say I've been, you know, not not not the best with my behavior when I've interacted with, say, a person at the supermarket or someone in a retail setting or someone like, you know, those first responders she talks about who be

handling a lot of it. Given that we can't really do a lot about it, I mean, we can control ourselves. There's a lot we can't control. What's something you'd recommend from your professional experience that we could do that could maybe help us give others a bit of a chump out when they're on the receiving end unfairly?

Yeah, look, I mean, it's a 50 million dollar question, but I think there's a lot to be said for taking a deep breath and walking away from a situation that's that's making you feel angry. And no one in this world is perfect.

So there is no one who has it right 100 percent of the time. And I've been like you, you know, you sort of get this to a stage where you just sigh frustrated or you're so annoyed by something that you you do lash out or you do say something that's not particularly pleasant.

I think the brave person is someone who can pick up the phone and apologize or, you know, sort of take a step back and say, actually, I made a mistake or look at themselves and say, actually, that was poor behavior.

And next time I'm going to work hard to not act like that. So I think that at an individual level, I think that at a at a collective responsibility level, actually calling out for behavior when you see it in other people, you know, and being brave enough to do that, you know, you didn't respond particularly well to

X, Y, Z, or that tone meant blah, blah, blah. And I think they're the challenges that we've got as communities to think about, because you see it not just in workplaces, you see it on the footy field when the kids were able to play footy.

But, you know, you'd say someone are right and they think, you know, it's OK. They 10. Why are you so angry? It's not it's it's not just it's everywhere. It's everywhere. People are you know, you see it on Twitter.

And I look at people just going off on Twitter and you think this is a person, a human being who's trying to do their very best at their job. Yeah. And we're always going to get it right. But at least they're showing up and at least they're turning up and at least they're trying to do the best

they possibly can. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. We don't have the answer. But you're right. Like. I love the fact that you've alluded to being able to pull out behind you there and get better and better for finding how to do it in a really confusing manner, because it's so hard not to be emotive in height and

in those situations. And but we all need to be able to have a discussion about it and get on with that grassroots support and put each other there out for the toilet like it's a great spot. Well, you were one of those.

I get it. Yeah. You know, whatever it takes. I'm a big fan of the whole play. You know, there is a difference. We've kind of we've kind of covered it off the beat. But let's let's do a bit of a deep dove back to when you were maybe starting in your career and, you know, negative experiences, Britts

of career, which is it had the highs and the lows and variety in particular. What are maybe some key things, one or two that you'd love to be able to change, because you just know in your heart that if that happened, it would expedite the career or the trajectory for others in your footsteps now.

You know, so how could you? What are some things that are just clear, blatant changes you'd make in a heartbeat that would really make a difference to speed things up and make it easier, but more frictionless for. Yeah, I think the big one is acceptance of diversity.

So, you know, I think proactively realizing that there's no diversity in this mix and by diversity, it's not just gender and sexual preference, it's that neurodiversity, that different way of thinking. So I've been really, I suppose, interested and fascinated in watching the neurodiversity work.

Let's come to the fore and the guys from with you, with me. I think they will change the way workplaces think about how to include people who are diverse thinkers. And what does it actually look like to include those people, but not just include them from a tokenistic point of view, but from me.

This is how we really get near a diverse thinking happening. And I think people will play a major role in that. But so, too, will technologies enabling people to have voice where they've never, ever, ever had voice before.

And I you know, I did a bit of it with Young AMWell where we were. We proactively engaged with young people who probably wouldn't have normally engaged us, as you know, Brame's trustor, as you know, as young people with voice.

But we really position it to make sure that they had that voice. And again, it was Premiere, 10 years too late. So, you know, I was when I was starting off, you just don't know what you don't know.

And I think that's the real challenge. So I think the neurodiversity one is a big one. I still don't think we've done anywhere near enough around giving people comfort in being able to talk about mental illness and what that means in terms of how they engage with other people, whether that's in a workplace or whether that's in

community. And I think there's a lot of work still to do on that. They're probably the two biggies. So diversity of workforce and greater acceptance of traverse people within a workforce. Yeah. I think that um. So let me I'll see how I can help with that.

Tell me about together I because you are chief strategy officer there, which is a big post, because in many ways that says to the market that you're the person who's kind of helping steer the ship, but not getting in the way, but being able to have a bit of instinct about, you know, these bigger term vision for

that business. What's the key problem that it's solving? And what's that unique way that it's going to do it? So together, I and the big problem solving is how do we help people have better conversations in families? And how do you have that right conversation at the right time and.

Get to a solution that enables. Better family cohesion effectively. Which then has knock on effects for the mental health and the well-being of families, but also the children within those families. So. I joined because I think the technologies are right, and I think you can now achieve that when we tried to do it back in 2011.

We did it through a living lab model of sitting adults and children together so that they could have a conversation about how they were engaging with technology. And it was all about cyber safety back then. And it was important.

They were really important conversations because they were you know, you can imagine back then technology wasn't what it is today. You know, we thought mobile apps were the most incredible thing since sliced bread. And all of a sudden there were, you know, thousands of the things.

So what we were trying to achieve. In those original studies was to sort of understand how you can support families to have those conversations and how you support those families to have conversations earlier before children and young people got into trouble.

Fast forward to the beginning of this year when Josh Wilson, who's the CEO and founder, found me on LinkedIn. I thought, who is this weird? Who is this weird person? I don't think I'm I'm happy to have a chat, but I'm not sure that I'm your person.

And I got on a call with Josh like this and had the conversation. And he talked me through really authentically what? He had done which was made a massive mistake and why he wanted to get this company up and running.

And so I was really sold on that, but I wanted to do my due diligence. And I spoke to his chairperson, and she had been his mentor for many, many, many years. And she was probably one of the defining moments for Josh because it taught him humility.

And I then met him face to face. And I was immediately blown away by his authenticity, his desire to help people. His ability to bring together incredible teams. And the fact that I think the technology is now ready to take us to that next level.

And also because I think there is so much content out there that for parents trying to navigate and you've got four kids under eight, it's it's a minefield and it's a real challenge. And knowing to knowing how to or where to find that information, let alone how to use that information, is, I think, one of our biggest

, biggest issues. And I certainly feel that as a mother to three kids, that when I talk to their friends who also have children, knowing when and how to have conversations about prickly things from pornography to suicide is really tough.

Mhm. Yeah, absolutely. I'm sold again. Together I always like when people find that is is their website or so. At the moment it's a beta community and there's 20000 families within that community already. And this is again, what I love about the way in which the structuring is.

So the team that he's built out and again, I've joined his chief strategy officer, the risk is a big issue. And so that chief risk officer, chief financial officer is you know, it's structured in the right way. So it's a beta community can find it on just Google together.

I and you can join the beta community. But I think, you know, internationally, I think it's going to be a major winner. Mother, tell me I just want to take a quick detour and ask you, is there like one amazing woman, whether it's in Australia or globally, that's doing something awesome that's caught your attention recently, which you

maybe weren't aware of that you like? Oh, wow, that's so cool. Oh, one. Well, Liesl Yearsley is just phenomenal. Her again, she's artificial intelligence and was doing I before I was cool. So I met Lisa when we were trying to do Reachout online.

Avatar plus, I kind of remember it was cool back then, and she was a technologist who was supporting Jack Kafe at the time. And we suddenly joined the dots, and that was about 12, 20. And I know I saw her talk at a conference on the role of artificial intelligence and what it would mean for health care

professionals. And she then went back into fintech. So she didn't pursue that young people or health aspect. And then we reconnected again through another amazing woman and Maria lives. And again, I think she's had four startups. This is her fourth.

And she's looking at using the technology for support of people with disability. And she's also got a beta community going, looking at how you might create this tech that actually supports people, men in managing their own support, workers through the NDIS.

So I think that one's incredible. I've reconnected with my US colleagues, ScotI Cash, who's from Ohio State. She's incredible. Some of the tech coming out of the US is phenomenal. Yeah, there's some really interesting stuff happening. Love it.

Now, tell me this could be the weirdest, wackiest thing, it could be boring, everyone does it. It could be something you need for like one of some of those key secrets to success. So whether you're thinking back to your daily routine or whether it's something you've implemented to make you like 10 times more efficient with your time

. Hit us with some of those those secrets that have really served you so well. Yeah. So I don't know if there's anything too weird or wacky about it, but running has been my, I think, time destress time from time.

I'd say probably that has been my constant, so I started running in ninety nine, I think it was, and really got madly into exercise when I was doing my pitch. So getting that balance of physical fitness and mental fitness, I think is is really important.

I love downtime with the kids. So everything from music to mountain bike riding, of which I went mountain bike riding on Sunday in the rain with Harry and Phil in a big mud puddle and specifically myself. What are you doing?

That's the part that needs to go on LinkedIn. Do you have you have pink rhinos that are now covered in stinking mud. But I think all of those things that. Give you a reality check. And I you know, I also love just hanging out with my girlfriends and just, you know, having a chat about just the day

to day stuff that, you know, is a challenge. I mean, nothing. Life is messy. I think that's the reality of it. Life is messy. It's tough. That's hard. There are ups or downs. No one's perfect. No family is perfect.

No job is perfect. Although I'm feeling that together. Our one is actually pretty close to it. But but, you know, it's I think it's all of those things. It's just sort of taking it back and just sort of going, OK, what do I need to do to just get through this day and how do I get through

this day? Love it. What's the biggest fear or biggest fears? It's always failure. You're always terrified of failure. But as I've learned over the many years of experience, failure actually breeds success. And that's a cliche. But through all the failures and all the mistakes, it it gives you more insight into, well, what's next?

And I think generosity and sharing that knowledge is absolutely fundamental. I love the fact that, you know, I'm mentoring a lot of young people coming through the ranks, both male and female. Yeah, I think continue to be curious is super, super, super important.

I think it's easy to get stuck in a routine or stuck in a rut or stuck in a way of thinking. So as I mentioned earlier, I just feel like I'm learning so much from from the younger guys coming through and probably more I'm probably learning more from them than they're learning from me.

So I think, you know, all of those things are important ingredients to to just sort of quelling your fears. Yeah. Love it. Excellent. Is there a secret talent that may be. Well, not no one knows about, but only a select few do.

Willing to share on this show quippy karaoke. Could it be the craft sharing or knitting or what gives you some? What's the secret talent? Well, I don't know that it's so much of a secret talent, but I do love Mazon because I like Milutin and it should be on LinkedIn.

We need to humanize anyone. Oh, no. And I do I do love a good dance to show that anyone who's seen me would say I've got two left feet to do is still a thing is is still a worldwide Kretzmer.

Yeah. To me. So I go to the local YMCA. I think that is the most incredible environment of beento Zumba classes with young, young, young people, older people, people with Down syndrome, an older guy who'd be probably in his 70s, 80s.

It's the music's amazing. Just the atmosphere is fantastic. You cannot do Zumba without smiling, but you just can't. It's impossible. And the energy is just frenetic. You just leave with this. You know, it's how it works. I'm hopeless and I can't follow the steps very well.

But you just leave with this sense of that is joy on legs. Awesome. We've run out of time. So we're going to have to hold you to a part, too. It's interesting, your pop three or I just do this regularly.

It's awesome times fun. But I want to ask you before we wrap up and give you the opportunity to share with our audience, how can we collaborate with you? How can we get in touch? How can we get involved but reach out on LinkedIn?

That's always easy. Well, I'm productive. Say I say is it's a collaboration. So if you're interested in being a part of something that looks after the psychological safety of people's health, then please feel free to give me a bow and join.

But I like I like connecting with people. That's probably my super human. And I like connecting like minded people, because I do think the Glaslough and I said if together we do better. I don't think one person can do it alone.

I don't think one organization has the answer. I don't think one technology is going to solve the problems of the world. And I do think we have to think collectively, what is it that we can actually do that makes the world a better place?

Ken Burns, superstar, what a jam packed episode, and thank you for your time. We can't wait to do this in Bursten. I'll give you a tour of any studio. And where we do Katsumata. Yeah, absolutely. Without a doubt.

Let's get those sick of sick women together. Thank you, Jane. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Qenos, if you loved what you heard, then do us a favor and review and subscribe to us on all your favorite platforms to get in touch.

Head to get torcht.com and see you on the next episode.

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